tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post926769977722682770..comments2023-09-18T15:13:07.133-04:00Comments on Cyclopeatron: D&D Next and the Ultimate Criterion of a Good GameBob Reedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-66624877016957523712013-01-15T11:51:30.428-05:002013-01-15T11:51:30.428-05:00I'm in agreement. The more that I see, the mor...I'm in agreement. The more that I see, the more I feel that Type 5 greatly would benefit from Basic/Expert and Advanced(sound familiar?) sets at this point. It seems to be losing focus by trying to please everyone. A Basic set would be more than enough for OSR fans to have a very good time, while an Advanced set could have all the crunch that a 3-4 edition player would ever require.Nachtwulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923398097049477340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-49412369978514877212013-01-13T09:25:39.168-05:002013-01-13T09:25:39.168-05:00I share your criterion for a good game, but I thin...I share your criterion for a good game, but I think it's important to note that the play test packets are supposedly testing elements from "advanced" modules and not just from the core system.<br /><br />From Mearls' latest column (Jan 2013), it sounds like having a simple "basic" version of the game is still a primary goal:<br /><br /><i>Back in the early 1980s, the game rules were accessible and play was supported with a lot of adventures. Since then, the game has become increasingly complex. New editions have added more rules, more options, and more detail. Even if one area of the game became simpler, another area became far more difficult to grasp. We need to reverse that trend and make a version of D&D that new players can pick up with ease and that existing players can continue to play by utilizing a wealth of world-class adventure content.</i><br /><br />-- <a href="https://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130107" rel="nofollow">https://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20130107</a>Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-75873338061817103862013-01-09T18:18:12.876-05:002013-01-09T18:18:12.876-05:00I think pathfinder is a good product, but I've...I think pathfinder is a good product, but I've yet to really adopt it and I'm not convinced it meets your ultimate criteria. I could be wrong, just not my experience. <br /><br />The commercial niche you mention likely deserves it's own post (that I encourage you to write). If your guess that they aim to draw players from board game or card game circuits is correct, I'm at a loss to see how. I don't see the connection between those and the current playtest. It's not that I disagree, I'd very much like you to unpack those thoughts a bit.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05744547048757312772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-56623072697778686132013-01-09T08:56:58.282-05:002013-01-09T08:56:58.282-05:00Well, it' still in playtest. Maybe they'll...Well, it' still in playtest. Maybe they'll end up toning down the boardgameyness a little. Bob Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-26974637782499940972013-01-09T08:54:13.181-05:002013-01-09T08:54:13.181-05:00Yes, I think D&D Next will be a very good game...Yes, I think D&D Next will be a very good game and I hope to play it. I just don't see (1) how it would fit in with my normal gaming life, or (2) what commercial niche it will fit into. I can't distinguish what the motivation to switch from Pathfinder would be, and I now I don't see how D&D Next would open up any new cross-over audiences to roleplaying. Maybe they're aiming to pick up new players from the board game or card game circuits...?Bob Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-23732726021776211982013-01-09T08:50:35.678-05:002013-01-09T08:50:35.678-05:00I agree - LL is great! I've played it a lot an...I agree - LL is great! I've played it a lot and introduced many new players to the game using it.Bob Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-58172038423322746252013-01-09T08:49:42.351-05:002013-01-09T08:49:42.351-05:00Yes - you're right, and this is how I ease new...Yes - you're right, and this is how I ease new players into gaming anyway. D&D Next makes this a little more challenging, however, because you have to come to the table knowing the defined set of actions available to you in certain circumstances. For example, there is a list of exactly 15 different actions you can do in a combat round. Thus for a new player the DM can either "translate" the players English commands into game commands, or the player can sit and thumb through the book each round to look at the options. Sure this can work, but why fuss?Bob Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-82804069304268066482013-01-08T20:14:23.578-05:002013-01-08T20:14:23.578-05:00I think D&D Next will, ultimately, be a genera...I think D&D Next will, ultimately, be a generally well designed game and I will almost certainly play it. However, I've been struggling to describe to myself why the most recent play test packet turned me off. I appreciate your comments, they helped me define what it was that turned me off. Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05744547048757312772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-58737515906582060382013-01-08T19:38:11.674-05:002013-01-08T19:38:11.674-05:00I have no interest in D&D Next, as I cannot im...I have no interest in D&D Next, as I cannot imagine any product that would woo me away from Labyrinth Lord at this particular point in my gaming career. I agree 100% with your comments about ease of play and tapping into (and encouraging!) player imagination rather than rules-knowledge, especially since I am now running a public game. The extreme ease with which a new, neophyte, inexperienced player can leap whole-hog into an LL game frequently astonishes me. Huge fun!Carter Soleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01286436801953647693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-45974603324877377312013-01-08T18:40:00.452-05:002013-01-08T18:40:00.452-05:00That's too bad. One reason I play the games I ...That's too bad. One reason I play the games I play is because the experienced players can easily turn the real-world action descriptions and character details of casual players into game terms. You don't need to really know the nitty gritty rules to play. Knowing helps, but doesn't unbalance the characters. The guys who plan out every aspect of their character from cradle to grave don't do any better than the guys who just show up and play casually.<br /><br />I was hoping D&D Next would allow for more of that kind of play, not need to learn jargon to play.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-42661084406573409762013-01-08T18:01:41.701-05:002013-01-08T18:01:41.701-05:00I think a version of D&D can be complex at the...I think a version of D&D can be complex at the level of the established campaign but at the game table can be introduced to new players in a very simple fashion on a need to know basis. Players don't even need to have the same kinds of character sheets. You could start a newbie with nothing and let him listen to the other payers and just ask him what he wants to do and adjudicate his character's success differently.Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165997449776226774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-81080613185321145602013-01-08T14:58:54.338-05:002013-01-08T14:58:54.338-05:00Also, consider who they are getting feedback from....Also, consider who they are getting feedback from.... Who are the people that would download a packet and playtest a game? Experienced gamers. <br /><br />Is this really the audience that will lead to stability and a commercial breakthrough? Probably not.<br /><br />Thanks for the note, Ark! I don't know how sustained my posting will be. It's more fun to blog when I'm actually gaming, and I'm not really gaming right now. We'll see...Bob Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2005132770907882258.post-74359864905974811802013-01-08T14:19:12.493-05:002013-01-08T14:19:12.493-05:00I'll have to agree with you. My early play te...I'll have to agree with you. My early play testing went very well. But what appeared to be a good base game morphed into - some type of committee designed monstrosity. I think they stopped listening. Depressing, really.<br /><br />But it's good to see you posting! :)<br /><br />- ArkArkheinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04197738947435750745noreply@blogger.com